That’s me in the corner

[madbaker]

It's been interesting debating politics with scendan, as our views differ on a number of subjects (although by no means all). It made me think last night, and I'm undoubtedly not the first to come up with the following analogy:

 Politics as Religion

I don't mean born-again Christians voting for Bush or Jews for Kerry. It's more the sense of "I'm a registered x, and my party’s beliefs are the One True Way." People can't compromise or persuade each other to change their views, because the party line came from On High. Politics today is a matter of faith, not reason - it is not subject to debate.

Moreover, because the other side is Heretical, any method of vanquishing them is justified. A fairly obvious example of this is the Texas Republicans re-districting to brazenly grab more Congressional seats, and the Democrats' craven response of fleeing rather than engaging in actual debate. More obvious yet was Florida in the last election. It's not enough to win; it is vital to win by enough to meet what I'll call the "margin of litigation". Both sides will swoop down on any hint of real or imagined impropriety to harangue for their candidate, because the Defense of the Faith warrants anything up to and including jihad and suicide bombers - metaphorically speaking. So far at least. (I'm not picking on Islam here, so feel free to substitute "crusade" and "Kill them all, let God sort them out".)

Where do I stand among all this? Let's twist the wheel on this analogy's torture rack further. In a nation of Christians and Muslims, I'm a Zen Zoroastrian. I share some principles with all but all with none. As the True Believers slaughter each other in the name of their True Deity, I stand on the sidelines shaking my head sadly at the stupidity of it all.

I'm honest enough to admit that if a party suddenly converted to my views, though, I'd probably be cheering on the ensuing auto-da-fe with the rest of the crowd.

Comments

*shaking her feathers along with you*

[corva.livejournal.com]

There has been talk, from time to time, on what a county would look/feel/function like if there was a party (that could get elected) that shown for our ideals.
Now it must be made clear that there were be differing parties for the adults in the household but the debate and the wishful thinking is there.

[scendan.livejournal.com]

I think your statements are sad and, worse, increasingly true these days. :( Although I've always voted Democrat, there have been times I've seriously thought about voting for people belonging to various other parties. While, in the end, I decided to "vote party"...I flatter myself to think that I didn't do so simply to "toe the line" that I was used to toeing. I just, in the end, decided that the candidate I prefered happened to be the Democrat--sometimes by a very narrow margin.

To me, the thing that is scariest--in religion, in politics, in day-to-day life, are those people who see issues in terms of black or white, right or wrong, good or evil.

While I spit and howl about the administration we're stuck with, I try very hard not to spit and howl at "the Republicans"...I don't always succeed, but I try.

Because we're all more than conservatives or liberals, christians or "secular humanists", straight or gay (heck, I identify as "bi"...how non-black and white can you get? Doh!). We're all far more complex than labels, and you don't have to be on any one side of any of those fences to come up with a good idea.

Or a crashingly, dangerously bad one.

So...here here to your post!

Now...how to encourage people to see the shades of gray in life without those shades of gray terrifying people back to the black and white corners? That's the challenge.

[scendan.livejournal.com]

AND...I've enjoyed debating with you, too, and was vastly relieved to hear that you were not losing patience with our conversations. :)

[madbaker.livejournal.com]

From your LJ (not your post, mind):

"I'm as baffled as you as to why someone would vote for Bush. The only thing I can come up with is that the people who would vote for him really believe all the lies. Or, maybe, a vote for Bush would be a vote against Kerry simply due to his democratic platform. An anti-democratic vote? I guess."

That sounds like a non-gray True Believer talking. 8)

[scendan.livejournal.com]

Perhaps. But I've heard her discuss the issues in very non-black and white thinking ways.

Just...not in that statement. ;)

[madbaker.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I'm not trying to pick on her specifically, either... she is far from the only person around here that I've heard/read make that particular statement.

(Sweeping, over-broad statement follows)
A bad thing about a monoculture is its relative inability to tolerate and incubate diversity. Here in the Bay Area, the monoculture is generally political in nature.

It's a little telling if you've always voted Democrat...

[blkeagl.livejournal.com]

...however, I have to admit that I tend to vote D more often than R. I think it has more to do with local politics than anything.

I have been able to vote R on many occasions though and the political leanings of individuals such as McCain and the BoobenGrabbinator and other moderate R's are such that I do vote for them.

Of course, I actually voted for AND against our current governor.. one of my favorite elections where I actually got to do that legally and correctly.

That's one way I'd consider revising our electoral system.. to support voting for more than one candidate and offering weighted opinions.

Re: It's a little telling if you've always voted Democrat...

[scendan.livejournal.com]

It's a little telling, yes. But I don't think it's telling in the sense that I refuse to consider other candidates. Like I said, I've really thought carefully about a number of elections due to trying to pay attention to what candidates are saying. I've not yet voted outside of party, but I think I would, if what a candidate offered in another party seemed to better jibe with how I felt about the issues at hand. It's been close before, but never so close I felt compelled to vote for a candidate other than the Democratic one.

I'd say it's telling in the sense that, historically, Democratic has been the closest match to my personal views. But that could change, and I try to stay open to that.

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

my party’s beliefs are the One True Way

I agree this is a huge problem.

[fionnbharro.livejournal.com]

Well, it is for the other party.

For My party, it isn't a problem.





Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with any party.

If it's MY party..

[blkeagl.livejournal.com]

I'll pry if I want to.

Re: If it's MY party..

[madbaker.livejournal.com]

Ouch!
Thank you very much, he'll be here all week...

[goldenstag.livejournal.com]

Politics these days *IS* religion. Just like operating systems for computers, just like ...

Many people want to see the world in black and white -- it's either one thing or the other, and there's no middle ground. The world has many shades of grey, and I wish folk would just get used to it.

[madbaker.livejournal.com]

No arguments here!

[albionwood.livejournal.com]

Now this time, I think you are spot-on! For example, many people do not question their religious leaders, even if close examination would show that they do not live up to their creed. They remain faithful. Likewise with political parties - witness the Republicans sticking with Bush despite his betrayal of nearly all their professed ideals. Democrats similarly stuck with Clinton despite his betrayals; although it is worth noting that many lefties did in fact abandon the Democratic Party in the 2000 election - that's how we got W. I don't see any prominent Conservatives mounting third-party campaigns or advocating against Bush (as Liberals did to Gore in 2000). So I'd say that Republicans have more "blind faith" in their party than do Democrats, in general, though the analogy certainly holds for all sides.