A seething mass of turgid drama.

I think lobsters are cute...

Go arthropods!

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goldenstag.livejournal.com

Well, there's something in the lizard brain of most people about lobsters and their close (well, close enough) resemblance to spiders, and ... and oddly enough, lots of folk think frogs and chickens are cute. Not me, but ...

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fionnbharro.livejournal.com

... Any ideas what we can do?

BTW, La Mere Michelle in Saratoga (http://tinyurl.com/asfj9 -- wherein I had the most incredible dinner in my life) does wonderful things with foie gras.

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PETA almost always goes too far, but I admit that foie gras is on the list (sadly) with veal as "foods I will no longer eat." The whole process of creating both just seems too cruel to me. And I know it's all an arbitrary decision-point. I mean, chickens that crank out eggs in vast quantities are also in horrific conditions a lot of the time. It's all pretty cruel.

But those are two in which I just have to personally draw a line.

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I agree--I too will not eat veal, foie gras, or (for other reasons) shark fin anything. In fact, just seeing them on a menu is enough to make me skip that restaurant in the future. I realize all factory farming and commercial fishing is intrinsically inhumane, but there's just something particularly distasteful these processes. It makes me wonder what kind of sadistic bastard came up with the idea in the first place.

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loup_noir

Ditto. I haven't eaten veal in decades. Fois gras, I've never eaten and won't because of the way the animals are raised. (Besides, I like geese as critters. They have loads of personality -- unlike chickens or sheep or cows or fish. And, yes, I have been around all of the above.)

At various points in my life, I've been an almost-vegetarian (meaning I still ate chicken) and I could become a vegetarian; however, himself loves meat, although he was willing to eat a heavily vegetarian diet for years with me.

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It's a practice that began in ancient Egypt.

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Now shark fin I think is basically evil, since sharks are not a commercially grown product, and so shark fin soup is decimating whole populations of wild sharks, conceivably past recovery. So not only is it a nasty practice (hauling the sharks in, lopping fins off only, and tossing them back to die), but it's not one in which the animals are being cultivated in a way that will keep the population overall healthy. At least with foie gras and veal, you're doing semi-horrid things to a captive population of domesticated animals. Doesn't make it nicer for the individual animal, but at least it's not playing merry hell with a wild population's overall species health.

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madbaker.livejournal.com

And I'm pretty much in agreement in regards to shark fin. And tiger gall bladders, and other suchlike.

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madbaker.livejournal.com

I respect that stance. I support your right to have that view.
I don't want my right taken away. As it already has in CA, effective 2012.

And people who enforce their views by vandalism and terror threats should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

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ornerie.livejournal.com

my personal fave? when they picketed in front of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center with big graphic signs of animal testing (none of the type that was happening inside, mind you).

and the little girls with no hair got to have their wheelchairs pushed through the picket lines to get inside. I was happy to see that they didnt stay long.

nice, eh?

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You do know that the head of PETA is diabetic, right? And would be dead, but for animal research.

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ornerie.livejournal.com

ooo, that's ironic.

now, if they believed as I do that "cruelty" is the causing of pain for No Good Reason (tm), that would be one thing...

its just that their idea of a Good Reason and my idea of a Good Reason are so different.

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mine too...

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riverheart.livejournal.com

You won't be able to buy foie gras in California after 2012?

At the moment, you can still get it online. If it freezes nicely, you might want to stock up just before the ban hits.

WA may be next. Time to get some myself.

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Your last sentiment, I totally agree with. Your proceeding sentiments as well, although I am squeamish about foie gras and veal.

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A reasonable decision that can be supported. Disclaimer: I do eat veal and foie gras and shrimp (but not shark fin) and have no plans to stop.

From experience, I personally assume that anything PETA says is based on misleading information and probably a lie until I discover otherwise. There are many reasonable arguments to be made against some of the production methods but among others I find one argument quite lame:

The "food" forced into the birds is typically a mixture of ground corn, oil, water, and salt -- not a sound diet for long-term health of ducks and geese.

The usual PETA argument also strongly implies that the birds are force fed for their entire lives, while in fact, the birds are usually free ranging until near the end. The birds are force fed only in the last 2 weeks of their life and their long term health is hardly an issue at that stage and some claim that the process is actually reversable. The process of force feeding is intended to take advantage (and frankly exaggerate) of the natural process of fattening that the birds undergo immediately prior to migration. I doubt that myself due to the exaggeration of the natural gorging instinct, but then we kill the birds, so we don't really get to find out, do we?

For me, there's pretty much no food I will not eat, but I've also slaughtered my own food, so I know what it's like. Not that I relish slaughtering an animal (it is distasteful), but I don't think anyone willing to do that at least once should eat meat at all. But then I also find most vegan arguments to be lame and hypocritical since I know that uncounted insects and gophers and fish are killed in the production of their "organic" farmed foods.

Organic foods that happen to use pesticides and fertilizers as well, but if those chemicals come from shit, rotting food, and other plants instead of Dupont, it's ok to call them organic.

The real benefit to the organic food movement, in my opinion, is the attention given to the health of the soil, the quality of the plants, and an emphasis on selection of varietials for flavor over "easier to ship" qualities.

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Good points, all. :)

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Ugg. There's so many things wrong with these arguments I don't know where to begin. But since I don't even know who you are, or where you're coming from, I'm not going to further hijack this thread... So let's agree to disagree. In the end, we will all make our own dietary choices based on the information we have and our own moral boundaries. I encourage anybody reading these words to do their own research and make up their own minds on the subject.

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I certainly agree wholeheartedly. Everyone should do their own research and make their own decisions, which ongoing PETA campaigns are not about.

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OK, I agree PETA for the most part are a bunch of whack-jobs and if it were just them raising a fuss, I'd be less inclined to listen. But it ain't just them, OK?

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madbaker.livejournal.com

I encourage anybody reading these words to do their own research and make up their own minds on the subject.

Responsibility and self-education - what a novel concept!

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woo hoo!

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I am also ready to back up my arguments with actual research to any who care enough to ask.

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ornerie.livejournal.com

me? i find the way they raise MOST meat in this country to be incredibly inhumane. that's the rub...if they're cute and fuzzy everyone wants to protect them. chickens? not so much.

but I still eat it and enjoy every bit. and I am very very aware of the fact that an organism died for me, and am grateful.

*sigh*

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cvirtue.livejournal.com

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

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Then go here. This website gives info on who is behind the PETA kills animals site. Not exactly the niceness and fairness people themselves.

http://www.consumerdeception.com/

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cvirtue.livejournal.com

Thanks!

But that website doesn't give any "about us" type information; it's all about Mr. Berman without any background info to evaluate if they're just ranting or not, or what their agenda is. That's problematic, even if they're right.

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