my ten-second take on the Danish cartoons

[madbaker]

"It is blasphemous to depict the prophet Muhammed."

Wrong.

It is blasphemous for a follower of Islam.
Don't tell me, a non-believer, that I must follow your belief system.

Comments

[scendan.livejournal.com]

Word. It can be OFFENSIVE, but not blasphemous, for those outside the belief system. I can get behind offensive, but offensive doesn't require the burning of flags and threats of killing people.

Way to go, extremists! Way to prove the point of the cartoons!

Disgusting. And damnit, I LIKE A LOT ABOUT ISLAM!!!!! I DO, on PRINCIPLE.

[madbaker.livejournal.com]

Like most belief systems, Islam contains many admirable virtues. As well as appalling ones. It's too bad that - like most belief systems, because it's human nature - that the admirable subset isn't followed more often.

[fionnbharro.livejournal.com]

Within that particular belief system, even non-believers must not depict the prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him), and subscribe to certain conventions.


Sorta like 'Free Markets' and 'Democratic Republicanism'. Or 'Heterosexual Monogamy'.

[madbaker.livejournal.com]

I'm not within that particular belief system.

It doesn't apply to me.

[goldenstag.livejournal.com]

You have to keep in mind that for many very religious people, there IS only one true belief system, and therefore no other way to look at the world but theirs. Anything else is blasphemy. You have the luxury of living in America, where in theory (although there is the religious right trying to change that) everyone has a choice of what to believe or not, and there is a lot more tolerance than most places in the world ...

[madbaker.livejournal.com]

Why should they worry, then?
If I'm not within their one-true-belief system, then by their rules I'm damned to hell, or equivalent. The punishment is already there.

[goldenstag.livejournal.com]

Did I say it was rational? Most of these extremist religious issues are very non-rational ... "Just do what we say, or ... or ... I'll hold my breath until I turn blue and ..."

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

I belive it is a subset of Islam which says it's desecration to land people on the moon, too.

[ermine-rat.livejournal.com]

Funny that their protests have ensured that everyone on the planet will now get to see this cartoon. Without their protests, I would have never run across this Danish cartoon. So their protest is actually spreading the cartoon that they so despise, probably not what they had in mind.

[scendan.livejournal.com]

That's what you call ironic...

[blkeagl.livejournal.com]

I still haven't bothered to look for it.

[blkeagl.livejournal.com]

BTW, I don't find it funny (in the ironic sense).

I believe it was a deliberate act on the part of those who sincerely WANT to foment further disassociation between Islam and the 'West'.

I believe this is exactly what they want.

[ermine-rat.livejournal.com]

No, they want us to say their religion is more important than any other, and demand special treatment for their moods. This is about controlling the media and controlling policies of the West. Control is the issue. Not control over their own beliefs, but over everyone else's.

It's not an uncommon way of thinking from many Islamic countries that have absolute control of the press and justice systems. Another country with the same will (and different religion), would eradicate them to the last, and sleep well that night. It doesn't have to be that way, but they are testing the Western world's will with these tactics.

[blkeagl.livejournal.com]

I guess I have a different perspective on Islam and Islamic countries than you do.

[ermine-rat.livejournal.com]

and that's okay!

[blkeagl.livejournal.com]

Yep!

Vanilla, Chocolate! :-)

[blkeagl.livejournal.com]

A sincere protester might instead try making a similar mockery of Jesus.

On the other hand, that is also forbidden by Islamic law, so I guess not.

[farmount.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to figure out a similarly offensive mockery of Jesus. The Jesus Jackhammer Dildo? Or the Baby Jesus Buttplug?

I'm not of either religion, so both of them are neutral to me. Frankly, I find the idea of the cartoon (still haven't seen it yet; may try Google images "danish cartoon") mildly annoying and the sex toys laughable.

[blkeagl.livejournal.com]

Religions are like butt-plugs. They feel great going in...

[farmount.livejournal.com]

... but can damage you if you leave them in for too long?

... but can back up your shit until you explode?

... but require a LOT of lube?

... but feel better when they come out?

I'm just not sure where you're going with this one. :)

[blkeagl.livejournal.com]

Neither was I, so I had to stop. Mixing safe and unsafe usage, or various aspects of pleasure and pain is a definite theme though. :-)

It just sounded like such a great line!

[madbaker.livejournal.com]

"...but create Santorum!"

I'm rather proud of that one.

Genuine question

[madbaker.livejournal.com]

My knowledge of Islam is significantly more limited than yours, so I ask this informationally rather than inflammatorily. If that's a word.

Would a similar mockery of Jesus be allowed if it was part of a war against unbelievers, or an unjust regime? I seem to remember than in such cases any tactics normally prohibited (such as killing innocent women and children) are allowed.

Re: Genuine question

[blkeagl.livejournal.com]

You're asking the wrong person.

The Islam I was raised in would allow none of the above at ANY time or for ANY reason. The Christianity I was exposed to in Sunday school with the other half of my family also forbids it.

Yet people make excuses and justifications for all kinds of evil behavior. Making the enemy 'inhuman' is a necessary process in allowing people to destroy them without guilt.

I get yelled at a lot for making moral equivilence statements, but witness the Crusades, the Inquisition.. heck our need for a stable Middle East to preserve and stabilize our modern lifestyle.

We're not all that different in reality, just in terms of some world view. People in both 'worlds' believe that the same fundamental behaviors are wrong and not ok and the bulk of them are vastly more interested in personal safety and opportunity than destroying the West.

re: my ten-second take on the Danish cartoons

[nitnorth.livejournal.com]

It might be worth your while -- certainly enlightening! -- to read this article (http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/007602.php) on the same subject. In there, you'll also find a link to an op-ed in The New Yorker that has backstory on the evolution of the current Islamist movement.

Too, thinking about it, their outrage is not really any different to the outraged squawking we've been getting for years now from our own religious right. As far as I can tell, the major difference remains now what it was the first time I remarked on it: their religious nuts are willing to die for their beliefs. Ours are willing to run to France and hide.