An Indecent Proposal Poll

[madbaker]

One of my broker contacts recently got engaged. He and the girlfriend had been dating for quite some time, and she essentially told him to propose by the end of the year (2004) or break the relationship off.

He proposed at 12:20 AM, January 1 2005. Because he didn't want to end the relationship, but didn't want to give in to the ultimatum.

The wife said that in that situation she would have turned him down. Others have chuckled. What's your response?

[Poll #429926]

Comments

I sense bad buju

[callistotoni.livejournal.com]

Sounds like the makings of a future divorce to me. Call me a California goodie-two-shoes, but Sounds to me like these people have Power In Relationship Issues.

I voted "neither" because the response is only insulting if one accepts to validity of the ultimatum. Really folks, marriages only work if both parties *really want it*; not feeling like breaking it off just won't cut it in the long (short, even?) term.

Re: I sense bad buju

[tshuma]

That was my take. Power In Relationship Issues should really be resolved before the ceremony.

Then again, we have no real idea of the setup, why she may have said such a thing and how, and whether or not this couple enjoys such struggles. Different strokes...

Polls like this are tough...

[blkeagl.livejournal.com]

...to take seriously because there is SO much left out, it is just bound to create controversy.

It all depends on the relationship, how playful it is, and how serious each of them were about exerting control and the ultimatums.

If that had happened between Kris and I, it would almost certainly have been funny and neither of us would have been totally serious. Heck, I proposed that we hold our wedding on April 1st and it would have happened if April 1st didn't fall during the week for the next six years (at the time).

Re: Polls like this are tough...

[madbaker.livejournal.com]

April 1 is a fine time to have a wedding. It's why we had such a long engagement.

Re: Polls like this are tough...

[strmonkey.livejournal.com]

I am leaning towards the renew of the vows for April 1!!! I have to have some type wedding date on April 1st.

Re: Polls like this are tough...

[strmonkey.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't wait for 5 years in the first place. But if someone would toy w/my emotions like that I would be very pissed off. I think there is some hope because if he is willing to give and take but for me when someone like that treats someone w/so much disrespect look out cause I think the theme of the future household would be "dance monkey dance" if a guy would want to keep me.

At the end of the day, you don't fuck w/someone you love. You can play with them don't fuck w/your emotions. I would make you pay...

[farmount.livejournal.com]

I found it both funny how he weaseled out of the ultimatum as well as insulting that she even set one.

On the other hand, I've known other female friends who have done the ultimatum thing ("engage me or we're over") with disasterous results. While I can understand a concern over whether a relationship is a Long Term Thing or not, trying to tie someone legally in a binding contract is rude.

I would have told the girlfriend to go fly a kite, myself. I waited well beyond normal limits before proposing.

[scendan.livejournal.com]

I think an ultimatum smacks of problems coming from both sides of the relationship. If the woman feels she needs to give an ultimatum, that says that the expectations the two of them have for the relationship are probably too divergent for things to ultimately go well. Either she wants too much too soon, or he doesn't want to commit, or their timing is quite simply out of synch. Not a great place in which to marry.

Of course, note how successfully married I am! *snort*

[scendan.livejournal.com]

Oh, and also...yeah. Laying out an ultimatum at the "beginning" of marriage is...err...not great.

[strmonkey.livejournal.com]

Your not married because you didn't settle on just anyone. I didn't think I was going to get married at all. I wasn't even looking forward to it. But when you meet the right person-there isn't ultimatums, you don't give up things (you adjust things).
I am watching my best friend go through her second marriage (only 7 months) because while I dated assholes-she married them. Sweetie DON'T MARRY THE ASSHOLES!!!

[scendan.livejournal.com]

Good advice, definitely, from one in the know. :)

[goldenstag.livejournal.com]

I have to say that I agree with folks that an ultimatum means potential problems, unless the couple in question are really that sort of playful in general.

Normally it means to me a woman (or a man, it can go either way) with an agenda. Her life is not complete unless she's married, has her 2.5 kids, her house with the white picket fence, etc. Anything leading up to that is all fine, as long as that's where she ends up.

I successfully dodged a couple of those, and am much better off for it myself. <g>

Anyway, once they're married, how long do you think it'll be before she's preggers?

[klwilliams.livejournal.com]

I think his girlfriend was insulting to begin with. Though maybe they're just made for each other. (And, of course, why couldn't she just propose to him?)

[goldenstag.livejournal.com]

Hee. That's what happened to me. The problem is, if my prognosis is correct (and it could easily be way off the mark <g>), her proposing to him is "just wrong!", or "It's not done that way!" ... to some people, the world has to follow a specific script, and if it doesn't, the world is fucked up and wrong. Don't ask me ... the world is way too random for me to accept that, but ...

[maestrateresa.livejournal.com]

I guess I read it in the "playful" manner, and assumed that it was less of a power struggle and more of a "gee, we need to decide if our relationship should be permanent, or if we need to move on" sort of a thing, and his response being an agreement, with self-respect tacked on.

I guess it really *is* important to know what theyir relationship looks like in general to give a good answer! :)

[aimeric.livejournal.com]

I think my initial response was to giggle. Second thought was "Sounds like my family."

Picture it: New York City, 1970. My mom's 35, my dad's 43. They've been dating for 6 1/2 years. My mother tells my dad "if you're not going to do anything, then don't call me." He tried calling and showing up repeatedly, but mom kept slamming the phone/door when he indicated he just wanted to talk. Then, silence for a month...mom was convinced that he'd fled. But lo and behold, he eventually caved.

They've been married for 35 years.

To quote The Odd Couple, "[35] years doesn't mean you're a happy couple. It just means you're a *long* couple." So are my parents happy? I think "content with their lot in life" would be a better way of putting it, but that's how they approach life in general, not just relationships.

Thing is, I found out years later that dad had been engaged twice before in his life, and both times the engagement had been broken off. He's definitely a committment-phobe, and that's not just relationship-wise; it applies to anything more conrete than brushing his teeth...regardless of whether it would make him happy or not. So who knows, maybe it was the "right thing" for this situation?

As for the state of their marriage, the best way I can explain it is that they very closely resemble George Costanza's parents on Seinfeld. They shout a lot, but what Jewish family from New York doesn't? ;) They have a well-oiled business relationship --- very similar worldviews and a huge sense of responsibility (sometimes too much, IMHO) to each other and to the family, even when they've wanted to strangle each other. Never a finger raised in anger, although plenty of psychological warfare...but that's their natural state anyway. It's how they've always interacted with the world. I don't think I could see them as the lovey-dovey best-friend types with anyone, let alone with each other. But together they form a united front, and they function like clockwork. So I think this was possible the only way they *would* come together.

Mind you, this says NOTHING about the situation you've described. I think as some of the others have already said, there are too many possible variables and that the scenario as is is too vague to judge who's being insulting to who (one, both, or neither). On a gut level, as an abstract scenario, the original post gave a good chuckle. Sorta belongs in a Commedia...

'course, Chiara and I have been dating for quite a while, so I'm in no position to criticize. (In my defense, though, there have been plenty of extenuating circumstances, e.g. Peace Corps, religion and family issues to work out, etc)

What a couple of yutzes.

[aastg.livejournal.com]

Lucky for the world, that these two didn't get together and breed.

Buttermilk: it makes a body bitter.

Love,
Aunt Slappy

[wyterayven.livejournal.com]

Ok...to play the devils advocate.....and there is an aweful lot missing in the tale..

How long were they together? That makes a huge difference. Does she want kids? There is a finite time to make those kinds of decisions. If she wants a family, then she has to make some decisions. Health issues aside...does anyone really *want* to have teenagers in their mid to late 60's? And having kids is tremendously important to some people.

After all, she still needs time to find someone she can love, and go through that whole courtship ritual, get married and then have a family...that normally takes years. If she is 35 or 40 now, she doesnt have that kind of time to waste if she does want a family. And there are many people out there who really dont want to start a family when they arent married.

Is he just toying with her? Is he with her cause she is convenient and comfortable? I think he is a putz for playing head games like that. If he doesnt want to get married, then he should say so. She could then break it off and find someone who has the values that she's looking for, rather than stringing her along.

Is it actually wrong for someone to realize that their life is stagnating, and to stand up and say "Hey...there are things that I want out of life and needs I have that need to be met" when it looks like someone is playing with them?

Would it have been better for her to simply say "Its been nice, but bye now" with no warning? My guess would be that she has already talked to him about it, and he has brushed her off and not taken her seriously. Sometimes people need a wake up call.

Ultimatums are dangerous things....you really have to be careful if your going to give one, as I think they will usually blow up in your face.

I also agree with others though, in that if she felt she "had" to give an ultimatum, then perhaps they shouldnt be getting married.

[scendan.livejournal.com]

That is both a thorough and interesting analysis. :)

Hi there! Not heard from you in a while! :)

[wyterayven.livejournal.com]

Hiya! It has been a while. :)

Cant wait to see you again :)